Another 50+ knot fall/winter storm makes me write yet another post....mostly to make ME feel better that I have done the right thing. I note the message board in regard to people rigging kites far too large and wonder about certain people’s expertise and why they think they are ready for such conditions. I see tiny kites out flown by guys who have a year’s experience. I see experts and advanced riders without safety gear or a kiting buddy. People trying spots for the first time without asking questions. Guys getting huge air yet there is driftwood and as on Sunday a sunken deadhead right in the break that would only be visible a few seconds before submerging....easily missed. Riders going too far out....I violated that the other day, Hypocrite YES, but at least I know the area, the water was warm, the wind low.

My message is simple. Please: take care! Know your limits, nothing to do with balls.

-Just cuz another rider can manage high winds doesn’t mean you can and you could be surprised what mom nature can dish out
-Shit happens and anyone can break stuff but in those conditions you cannot expect mercy
-Winter winds are very different from summer thermals...u ready for an instant 15-20knot jump in windspeed?
-Cold water temperatures only become a real factor once you spend more than a few seconds in the water, before that everyone’s toasty in their shitty ripped 4:3 or torn drysuit
-A drysuit, BTW, is a body bag once you have to swim or have a tear
-Practice self rescue in heavy seas and you will find out you may actually die out there given a couple of compounding problems
-Be ready to donate your expensive gear to save your ass.

Nobody can help us at times!! Not in time anyway. We must rely on ourselves! I will of course worry and perhaps try to respond to people in trouble. I have a little hope others might do it for me.....Watching a kite getting worked during a landing the other day was one of those situations.....do I run to the beach and help?....can I get there in time?....what’s the right thing to do? ....will I ruin my session to try and help and then it turns out to be nothing? Why is that guy's sail not popping up, should I check it out? Wow that sure was a high jump, hope after that slammed landing he's ok.....Did he eat the boom or twist the kite inside out?

MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT: You put pressure on ME when you are out there and if things go wrong. I feel, whether you like it or not, responsible to watch out for YOU. Therefore my expectation with fellow riders is this:

-You better be advanced or an expert in storm winds.
-Yes, how else can you learn but by trying it....but work your way up the scale! 30 knots is light years from 40 knots, which is again a whole lot different than 50+
-You better double check your gear before going out
-If you don’t have the right size....guess what....ya don’t go!
-Know the tide and expected winds, while expecting the fcast to be wrong
-Have some form of floatation within your gear that doesn’t deflate, lose buoyancy, even if broken
-As a kiter you should have a buddy to help launch and land if water edge is sketchy. The rip rap or logmachine can kill or maim you easily.

But here is some personal stuff for those nutso days:
-I expect you to wear your helmet or at least hood, impact vest, any other usual safety gear including hi viz/reflective strips, flashy colors as possible, carry a spare line/rope,....it may end up not even helping you but at least you cut down the risk a bit
-I expect you leave space below the wave and lots of room riding, don’t point up below riders to be able to say "hello", it’s nice but it’s a problem. Don’t follow people out right in their wake. Don’t boost air anywhere upwind.... Gear goes flying uncontrollably and so can you.....I WILL get pissed.
-It’s great to share a wave....in 25 knots maybe....not at 40+
-Once winds go nuclear you may have real trouble and it happens fast!

HERE IS THE CLINCHER: I will feel shitty if something happens to you while I am out there and will carry it with me for the rest of my life if you, heaven forbid, kill yourself!! You owe caution to me and vice versa cuz we are in this together!! Posting this is ALL I CAN DO and you can tell me to go suck on it......fine. I just thought you should know!

Wow...great post Kus. An important perspective and very well said.

I have now made the "no go" decision with winds gusting at 40kts and a 6m....and found it gutting to be left wondering if you coulda or shoulda....I probably could have handled it just fine....but probably isn't good enough in that situation.

If the cost of the expected outcome = probability x consequence ... and if the consequence is potential death, then the probability better be very close to 0% or it just isn't worth it. Live to kite another day. But it's so difficult to know where that line really is, between those butterflies in your gut vs a situation where you're truly unsafe.

In kiting and many other sketchy sports I have pursued, I have a half dozen memories that once in a while keep me up at night thinking about. Days where I really got lucky, because it could have (and maybe by right should have) been the end of me. Lessons learned and wisdom gained, if you make through...follow your instinct and watch and listen to your betters.

And reminder to self: get those hi viz strips for helmet!

I sat it out and watched since I had not sailed for months, Kuz and Windoc are both well over 6' tall and have at least 40 lbs on me and both were on there 3.7's my smallest. The ocean can be and is a harsh mistress. I have been windsurfing storms for 33 years and know when to sit it out and just watch the younger guys and gals. Yes I have sailed in over 50 knots many times before, but know my limitations and the risks involved both to myself and if something goes very wrong to the rescue crews etc. It was getting late on sunday at 5pm when the wind came up, a very small window till darkness 7pm and an impending ebb tide to boot, which if something breaks, either equipment or you means you are just a head bobbing out in the ocean and that is not funny in the dark! Been there done that years ago, equipment smashed to smithereens on an artificial boulder breakwater like ours and swimming for my life, hypothermic and going into the " this is just a bad dream state in the water" I did find a beach to beach on after being sucked in and out till finally my feet made purchase on something to get me on to that beach in the dark after swimming for over an hour. A jogger found me unconscious on that beach and I woke up as he was dragging me along a walkway towards a phone booth to call for help. My equipment was totally destroyed, I did find bits and pieces the next day and that was lake Ontario and perhaps 8 foot waves and a full gale. Non the less I learned a lesson that day. That was long ago and far away and I am still here today to talk about. So exercise caution my dear friends, If you do not feel 100% don't do it!

Just so you know where I am coming from I have also waved a chopper off, ready to pick me up, ladder extended praying that I could make it back and I did. Make sure your equipment is 100% and you are too and have a beer afterwards!

Thanks Kus, I appreciate this. As a new kiter, I wasn't even thinking of trying storms but its nice to know that someone cares.

I have a question, I was planning on getting a drysuit for next year when ocean riding. What DO you do if you spring a leak out in the water? I am 6' 130lbs so I have 0 insulation in my own body. I wear a shorty in lakes during the summer(for wakeboarding) Would it be a good idea to wear a shorty underneath my dry suit so that I don't freeze before I get back to shore?

You drown.

Drysuits do have their use in some watersports but why you would want on for kiting is beyond me. Just an opinion though

Yeah the worst case scenario with drysuits is not good.

The Ocean Rodeo surf dry attempts to be a hybrid ... the usual drysuit rubber bag, but a 1mm neoprene wetsuit layer over top. So, if it springs a leak, it won't fill up with as much water and you retain some insulation....hopefully enough to get you to shore.

I couldn't imagine a drysuit getting a leak so bad you'd be in serious danger... if you manage to you must have a leak before you head out or probably got too close to barnacles... which are generally close to shore?

abetanzo wrote:I couldn't imagine a drysuit getting a leak so bad you'd be in serious danger... if you manage to you must have a leak before you head out or probably got too close to barnacles... which are generally close to shore?

For wetsuit cuts, I think the key culprit is surfboard fins....especially the trailing edge, razor sharp. Fall the wrong way on them, freak accident turns bad.

But barnacles too...I have been washed over the falls surfing onto rocks, and ripped a hole in my suit. Other than the surf dry, I've never heard of surfers using drysuits, I think risk is too great. There's also the buoyancy problem, in trying to duck dive a rubber air bag.

I rented a crappy wetsuit in England once, surfing in winter. The zipper didn't close right, and fully opened up after a wipeout. The combination of cold water, neutral buoyancy, and limited swimming ability was terrifying....felt like I was going to drown.

To get a sense of what it is like, try swimming fully clothed sometime wearing a ski jacket. Then imagine trying to bobbing up and down in 4 -6 ft seas.

Aboba wrote:What DO you do if you spring a leak out in the water?

Head to the beach!

Maybe one of the guys in the know at OR can chime in since they have more drysuit experience than most?

From what I've read discussions about cut drysuits, and what most people with actual experience with the drysuits say is that the water pressure squeezes the suit against you, so the suits generally won't flood, just a trickle comes in. (unless you put a huge gash in the shoulder and try body dragging, then you're screwed)

Aboba - I think the general consensus is that people wear wool underneath, stays warm when wet but breathes. If you're going to wear a wetsuit under a drysuit, why not just wear a wetsuit?

Personally for the gnarly stormy conditions, I'd still rather have a wetsuit, lots of buoyancy and probably easier to swim with, and to deal with when getting dummied by waves. (It also helps that I surf and have been on student budget, so I need a warm wetsuit anyways, so a drysuit seems kind of redundant for me)

Adrian - I concur with Jon, surfboard fins dish out some nasty slices (I sliced my shin to the bone through 3mm of neoprene a couple years ago. I'm thinking of giving proteck fins a try for kiting)

KUS wrote:safety gear including hi viz/reflective strips

BWD retroreflective helmet decals anyone? I'd be down with spearheading this as a BWD fundraiser if theres interest

KUS, that's a great synopsis of what most of us are going through emotionally out there during storm sessions.
The little guy rigging his 9.5m on Sunday (40+ knots) sure made me feel bothered, and I was very relieved that I never saw him launch after we spoke.
As for kiting with a torn drysuit, try it before making your comments about drowning. If you don't know... You don't know.
I've done it, I had an inch long gash in my Ocean Rodeo Soul near my hip, and I kited for hours with it. As soon as I was submerged, water pressure pushing the suit against me barely let any water to come into the suit at all. I didn't know what was going to happen, and I was frightened to try it out - but it landed up being a total non-issue. All that said, I didn't have to swim, and I wasn't out in storm conditions.

Obsessioned wrote:As for kiting with a torn drysuit, try it before making your comments about drowning. If you don't know... You don't know.
I've done it, I had an inch long gash in my Ocean Rodeo Soul near my hip, and I kited for hours with it. As soon as I was submerged, water pressure pushing the suit against me barely let any water to come into the suit at all. I didn't know what was going to happen, and I was frightened to try it out - but it landed up being a total non-issue. All that said, I didn't have to swim, and I wasn't out in storm conditions.

My polar heat dry had the zipper not fully closed, I almost drowned at IV, could not swim or waterstart, filled like a balloon, body dragged in. My OR Dry had a hole near the shoulder, I almost drowned 150 yrds from shore trying to swim in which was nearly impossible, not just because of the tear but the cold. I almost didn't make it back and would NOT have at Jordan River when I could not catch my gear when it was torn from my hands....I gave up swimming to shore and kept swimming after the gear and somehow caught up to it.....hypothermic due to water forced down the neck seal and arm seals getting worked and from swimming madly......yes, I do know. NO drysuits for me.....EVER To each their own. This was just a bit of an emotional storm post anyway, not an anti-drysuit post. I keep sensing someone's gonna buy it...maybe me? maybe I am over reacting....it's just a bit of wind and water, right whatever

hey Kus
Thanks for being there on sunday. And yes, I should wear a helmet and lifejacket on those days. I was ripping along merrily sunday when wood just appears in front of you, requiring lighting quick reflexes to avoid. Glad I developed those reflexes from years of windsurfing.