Last winter I bought a new 2006 Maui Sails Switch 6.4 (http://www.mauisails.com/sail.php?id=4). This sail is designed to rig on a 460 mast and has a 464 cm luff. I finally got around to rigging it last weekend and was confused because if I use a base with the lowest extension setting, when I downhaul so that there is some looseness in the leech that "looks about right" there is about 7-8 cm of space between the clew and the base cleat. I checked with "The Team" and got the answer "it could be just a bit short on the luff, not sure why. you could cut a few inches off the bottom of the mast. This is what I would do". I suppose that would solve the problem but it seems a little weird to me. What do you smart guys think?

i would rig it on a 430 w/22cm extension before cutting up your 460! you dont want to create a dedicated mast for the one sail. my guess is they changed the cut of the sail without updating the specs on the bag or wherever its printed. the other thing to check is your ferrule might not have been all the way in, i do that all the time

Thanks for the advice DWD. My first guess was the tip wasn't seated but that's not the problem. Here's what McGain had to say about rigging on a 430 which is certainly one solution "If you have a 430 mast, give it a try. But this sail is for a 460 mast. The 430 will feel a tad soft, but will still work."

I'll get the tape measure out this morning and measure the luff to see if it was mis-cut which is my guess about what's wrong.

By the way, there is a fascinating discussion of sail design at this Forum with McGain, Spanner, and others recounting the history and development of loose leech sails: http://www.mauisails.com/forum/viewtopi ... d=1221&p=1

OK, maybe I misunderstand your description Mike but, and this may be too obvious, the new larger sails have the downhaul block quite a bit higher up, then the sleeve drops down to about where the blocks used to be....at the physical bottom of the sail. I'd rig it so the bottom is level with the bottom of the extension and the sail has a nice loose leech with panel drop about 1/2 way across the second to top panel. Then I let it out from there to a tight leech if I'm underpowered to give it extra pocket. If the 460 doesn't let you do that, their specs are off I'd say. At that luff length I would choose to rig the thing on a 430 anyway tho so I wouldn't have to lug the extra mast around....My quiver only has 400's and 430's now. Even my 6.6 has the 430 as an equal mast option, appreciating it would be a bit softer.

Never would I EVER recommend to cut a mast unless you are building a kid's raft or a rack for drying yer suit on the back of the van. I remember my first board came with a fiberglass mast (albeit considered crappy now it was brand new, expensive and shiny then) and a sail with a non-adjust turban and the mast was too long....the shop recommended and cut it, the downhaul was always inserted too tight adn got stuck, the mast later split and also never did fit any other sail properly as DWD says.
Some professional advice BTW: I'd rig an adjustable turban before I'd cut a mast....it's easy with some webbing and a mast cap if you can manage to slip the mast tip past the sail's built-in cap/webbing and/or cut THAT out if you have to (ridiculous on a new sail!). I have done this on very small sails that call for a 370 mast to fit the 400. You get a slightly poorer performing sail as the pocket is larger (I think, if I have this right ) but it works fine for that odd day you need it. that way I manage to run a 3.3 with a 400 and skip an extra otherwise useless mast excepting that one or two days of the year....when it's probably better/healthier to watch and curl up with a good book anyway

Other obvious points: does your lowest extension start at 10-15cm? did you measure your mast?? and is it fully engaged at the joint?

Thanks for the good advice KUS. I checked with Phil McGain and he said: "If you have a 430 mast, give it a try. But this sail is for a 460 mast. The 430 will feel a tad soft, but will still work ". I measured the luff sleeve. It's 450 cm to the bottom of the downhaul cleat. It's another 3 cm to the foot of the sail and a total of 464 to the bottom of the pad sleeve. I have rigged it in the back yard and am uploading the pictures with this post. If I downhaul the sail so that the cleat is close to the base cleat there is WAY TOO MUCH downhaul on the sail. Again. I think this is a strange sail. One that didn't pass QC properly.

yeah, no no no, it's the bottom of the padded sail sleeve that should touch the bottom of the extension. You will have probably 3-6" between the downhaul and sail pulleys . Fold the sleeve down, velcro it in place and it should be max to the bottom just so you can pop the uni in and out without pressing on the sail, probably 1-2cm above.

Yes, I'll say it will have tons of downhaul if the pulleys touch. The sail looks a bit flat in the picture but the folds are pretty good from what I can tell. step on the bottom of the mast and see if it twists and the KKKrinkles disappear. Another way to tell if it's medium is the middle battens will be half way on the mast to maybe even poking a bit past it, off mast but just touching it if you flattened it. Nice sail!

Look. I downhauled it harder at Nitinat and Russian Dude came by and said that it was downhauled WAY TOO MUCH. Even then there was 5-6 cm of downhaul line between the cleat and the pulley. There's no way this is right. In the picture, there is plenty of looseness in the leech at the top. I outhauled it a little to have the battens touch at the centre of the mast. I think there is a problem with the sail. Mcgain told me that there shouldn't be that much space. I have been rigging sails for 10 years - Sailworks, Gaastra, Ezzy, Aerotech, World - and I have never seen such a big gap between the clew and cleat on the recommended mast. The instructions say 460 mast, 4 cm extension. That's what I am using. 8 - 10 cm of gap is just not right.

forget the pulley gap. It can have 2 feet between them, who cares. Watch the two top panels wrinkle a bit after the sail padded cloth has reached the bottom of the extension where the uni holes are. IN THE PICTURE IT LOOKS LIKE THE BASE PAD OF THE SAIL WILL EXTEND ABOUT 1-2 INCHES TOO LOW. GIVE IT ANOTHER ONE HOLE IN THE EXTENSION AND PULL SO THE BOTTOM-MOST SAILSLEEVE IS AT THE HOLES FOR THE UNI.

If you're still pissed at your nice sail after, I've got a brand newish 6.2 North Duke, maybe rigged 8X for $200, will deliver to Richmond

I don't have any solutions but I do wonder if posssibly, Mr. McGain is less concerned about closing the gap than you are. I'm only 5'7'' so having no gap (thereby keeping everything as low as possible) is a must for me. But I can't believe how often, especially in magazines, I see riders with gaps I couldn't tolerate. And they are the pros so I wonder if I'm just too fussy.
Perhaps this is a desperate analysis, but one begins to seek left field ideas when reasonable thinking fails. I'd be pretty frustrated. I think Kus's suggestion of a top turban is the the way to go. I've done it myself or a sail repair shop could do it.

I sent a query to Maui Sails and got this back from Barry Spanner the sail designer. ".. don't worry about sailing it like this, but better to get it a bit lower ..." He suggested a non-Chinook base with the cleats closer or removing the ring insert as possible solutions. With the Chinook base I used the extension is 8 cm rather than the recommended 4 cm. Part of that is a consequence of the placement of the pulleys below the uni holes - to bring the sail foot as low as possible I would think.

The upside? I guess it should be easier to duck jibe with the gap that large!

mast debaters!

KUS wrote: forget the pulley gap. It can have 2 feet between them, who cares.

OK KUS. I hereby challenge you to a race. You on any sail of your choosing WITH A 2 FOOT gap between the clew and the rollers and I'll sail on on one with the gap closed - about 1 - 3 cm.

I'll put a case of wobbly pops on the line for this one. Anybody else gonna ante up?

BY the way. I am not alone. Check out: http://www.mauisails.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=577

downwind dave wrote:mast debaters!

Good one DD. I actually don't think I've heard that one before!

My point is the sail design is different than what you are used to....I sail a couple of McGain's rigs, yes it does look different and there is a space between the pulleys even when it's downhauled to crap. Where the pulleys mount on the sail does not determine the "gap" and wave sails are not concerned with "closing the gap" as race sails are cuz the sail can interfere with waves, footstraps, your knees during transitions etc. so they are a different cut. Even if this is a freeride sail you still need some space between deck and sail.

You asking for a race just underscores the misconception

Again: It is where the padded mast sleeve ends that the bottom of the extension should be, I bet you those brown pops on it, forget where the pulleys are in relation to the grommet/hole/pulley or whatever it has.

If you look at the close-up picture the padded mast sleeve section will cover the uni if flopped down. The sail looks ok abeit a bit flat but it's too far down the mast. OK

I understand what you are saying Marcus. I didn't think that you would actually rig a 2 foot gap and race me . You'd probably win anyway . However, even the sail designer said ".. better to get it a bit lower ...". You infer that the sail was designed to have a large gap. It was not Spanner makes it clear that the sail designed to have about 1-2 cm of gap not 6-8 cm. The sail was designed for a 4 cm extension and the way that Chinook extensions are designed there is a minimum of 8 cm between the bottom of the mast and the rollers.

I tried rigging it on a 430 yesterday but the longest base I have only provides 25 cm of extension which is not enough. I don't want to buy another extension.

You should have a look at the exchange at http://www.mauisails.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=577

I have heard enough opinion to accept that 6-8 cm of space won't affect the performance of the sail BUT I don't accept that the sail was designed to have a large gap and that I'm not informed enough about sails or rigging to understand that.

How's that for mast debating